Air Bags,don't Go There

Plastered

Active Member
I have 15psi in mine reason is not to put excess pressure from having them pumped right up to 35psi.
as i did not have them when we crossed the simpson last year and with all the weight from our stuff i keeped bottoming out and ripped the flares of the car.

So i think it is worth having them just not over inflated.
 

Swaggie

Moderator
as i did not have them when we crossed the simpson last year and with all the weight from our stuff i keeped bottoming out and ripped the flares of the car.


Shite that was a close one as long as you didn't rip the FLARES on your Jeans....;)
 

purdo355

New Member
can you help?

i noticed your first post said you can repair bent chassis can you hav a look at my fj75 im in berwick?
 

saxsuspension

New Member
SAX Suspension Technology

HI GUYS,
I repair bent 4x4 chassis for a living, so i probably shouldn't write this post as 80% of my work comes from the fitment of air bags.
But i feel i need to help out my Earth freinds so hear goes.
We buy these 4x4s ,load them to the gunnels then wack a fully loaded camper trailer(maybe another three tonne )on the towball and serprise! the ass and is sagging. Well i'll just wack some air bags in,takes the load of the springs they say.
So wear dose the load go ???
straight on to the chassis
I've had 4x4s dragged in to work from all parts of this wide brown land at huge cost to their owners due to over loading and air bags ,some bent beyond repair with the towbar at 30 deg. bellow parallel.
The utes are the worst (Hilux,Triton,Navara,Ranger-bt50)with their flimsy 2 mm thick rear chassis.How they have a three tonne towing cap. is beyond me.Had a ford ranger just the other day cracked near threw at the bump stops.
Patrols- while the chassis are fairly strong their weak point is their rear spring mounts,they bend up into the floorpan, busting brakelines on the way&bending the body.
Defenders- (don't get me started.what a pile of sh!t) while they might look strong they are not. bending & cracking at the shocker mounts.
Land Cruisers -haven't had a bent one yet (gess what i drive).

Hope this opens a can of worms , there's alot to be said about over loading 4x4s makeing dangerous& unroadworthy...air bags don't solve the problem-if you won't to carry five tonne buy a truck.
Still have alot more info on chassis week points but thats enough typing for now.

Hi Guys,

May I suggest to you all, to have a look at the Three Stage Dynamic Leaf Spring by SAX Suspension Technology. Solves all your problems without harming the vehicle. Giving you a great ride off road and on, loaded to the max or not.

More information at: SAX Suspension Technology - Australia
 

muc the truck

Well-Known Member
This is an example of a incorrect airbag installation that has destroyed a vehicles chasis. But its not as you think. The air bags didn't do the damage the removal of the bump stops did the damage . had the bags been fitted in conjunction with bump stops he fitted the slam brand with internal bump stops the driver would have slowed down getting the signal he was hitting the bump stops .
since he didn't the load and speed at which he was driving meant that the bags just absorbed this signal normally passed on to the driver and simply over flexed the chassis . vehicle speed by drivers is reduced after a bump stop impact as its a firm jolt sends the brain a message its also completely ileagal in every state to fit helper airbags instead of the the bump stops and using the bump stop mount holes . you must fit bags beside the bump stops .


air bags do not increase load caring rated by manufacture and these people braking chassis are often clowns exceeding it so again its not the airbags fault . they are just to level the vehicle and those like my self that have airbags and lower rated leaf springs enjoy a soft flexy rear end while empty with the ability to carry the payload when required simply by adjusting air pressure .
 

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PJR NSW

Banned
Totally agree with the loading ignorance. I was criticised a ways back because I mentioned that I always made sure that I could just lift the van off the car. That meant I had less than 50Kg's loading on the towbar. It travelled beautifully behind the car. Even at 80MPH.

So much for rules like 10% (or whatever) of the weight of the van on the towbar.

Good initial post Cruiser. Thanks.

Phil
 

Jeep_jk112

Active Member
Good read.
Seen a dual cab hilux with a very sad looking tray, on the way to work earlier today.
Plumber has been throwing to much scrap copper in the back! :D

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
 

ULost2

Well-Known Member
bloody hell that Ps me off, type something out only to have some bugga in cyberspace gobble it up!

As I was saying; thank to cruising62 for the thread that I read as "beware of overloading" which is something I often think about when we are told of all the “have to haves” to drive a $X$ these days and that doesn’t include all the camping luxuries of today.

The overhang of most dual cab tub/tray is a worry imo

In a recent thread it was mentioned the strength/reliability of vehicles has given way to luxuries/comfort/purchase price and being able to get from A to B in the shortest possible time and using the least amount of fuel. In that same thread [and others] in was mentioned cars of the 70s and before went many places we need a 4x4 today and the roads were rougher. LOL try it today a normal car.

The likes of Tmodel fords opened up much the inland.

Sadly our vehicles and $X$ are no where as strong as yesteryears and IMO we need to keep all that in mind when we load them up for weekend away or for trip along the canning or up to the cape which I have no interest in doing. PatC’s repeat program on Saturday was one of the most boring I have seen from him.


And Grumpy; could you dip your lights please mate; I find them as annoying as the lights of an overloaded fourb in the truck mirrors :rolleyes: :)
 

muc the truck

Well-Known Member
Did you mean tray back as in dual cab tray back?

I have seen numerous pictures of dual cab utes with bent chassis and quite possibly over loaded usually with trailers too.

The trays these days seem to have a lot of over hang and if you but in an airbag it would seem you make the overhang leverage worse as the airbag becomes the pivot point.

Just a thought and really only applies to leaf sprung vehicles and airbags.

Cheers

Justin
]

if the airbags cause the bent chaisis like you say (pivot point ) it would show bends and cracks right at the airbag mount but they never do . Its always forward of it closer to the cabin and the same thing occurs with no air bag and a bent chassis . overloading above the track conditions , vehicle payload and speed cause dead vehicles not airbags. airbags just stop your headlights shining in peoples faces and even brake distribution again when they level the legal payload of the vehicle . we cant teach fools not to overload just like you can teach fools not to remove bump stops to accommodate airbags with no internal bump stops

as fools cant be taught
 
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BTFIVO

Well-Known Member
HI GUYS,
I repair bent 4x4 chassis for a living, so i probably shouldn't write this post as 80% of my work comes from the fitment of air bags.
But i feel i need to help out my Earth freinds so hear goes. Land Cruisers -haven't had a bent one yet (gess what i drive).

Good to hear mate. I just sold my 2012 BT-50 due to hearing about cracked chassis when towing around 3T to 3.5T. I now have a 76 series Land Cruiser, and have a caravan with a Tare of 2.5T and will be about 2.8T to 3.0T and a drawbar of 280kg. I will be using airbags ONLY to get the vehicle level height again and only at the 280kg, ie - not extra gear in the Cruiser. So hopefully she'll be a fair bit under GVM and safe. I have seen the chassis of the BT-50 and the Cruiser, and the Cruiser are FAR thicker and I can definitely see it supporting its factory certification on 3.5T towing capacity. I know that GVM and towing weights are different, but seeing as the BT-50 had a high GMV than the 76 series, I can honestly back up that the Cruiser has a highly towing capacity.

God dammit... I loved that BT-50 and spent huge on it setting it up, and I still miss it. I was soooo PISSED that I had to sell it, but after looking at them both very closely, I am glad I did now. However, if I sold the caravan tomorrow, I would shoot myself for selling the BT..!! LOL.

More and more I am seeing pictures of bent chassis on BT's and others. It's a crying shame that this "race to figures" that the vehicle manufacturers are competing in is just a marketing stunt and not true ratings. I don;t care what anyone says, as Mazda told me straight. "Can do it but NOT designed to do it every day". So if that says anything... it means they are NOT truly rated to tow 3.5T "reliably".

I would be suing Mazda if I kept it and my chassis broke. Vehicle manufacturers are designing vehicles with the absolute bare minimum thickness of materials for the most profit and it's disgusting. The ones who need them are the ones who suffer for buying them. I've lost $15,000 over it..!!
 

jack48

Active Member
Fit a good set of level rides when towing the van like Hayman Reece, and the proper Reece towing coupling. this will sit the van level and spread the load back to all 4 wheels on the rig and van, would also recommend an anti sway mechanism on the hitch,
 

BTFIVO

Well-Known Member
Yeah have a very good Hayman WD-Hitch and sway dampener. Both fitted make towing so much better. I wouldn't consider leaving the state without them fitted. I towed from Vic to NSW (960klm) with the Hithc and damper fitted and was great. Hardly any sway at all and I could maintain steady speed on bends. Really really good. I recommend all heavy trailers be fitted. I was offered to test one of those "helpers" like a short piece of spring steel bolted to the leaf-pack and it lifts the vehicle up a little. Only issue with that is once caravan is off, the suspension remains very firm. Not good for me. So I opted for bags. See how they go anyhow, and not inflate them too much.. 30 max.
 

muc the truck

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure this only relates to those vehicles without a full ladder chassis but there are some manufactures printing in there work shop manuals that level rides are not to be used and that to me is BULLLLshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhit. Because anyone towing a van knows how safe they make the vehicle . The argument behind it is that it adds extra stress to the tow bar fixing points and that just tells me the car is shithouse to begin with . There is pajero out there with tow bar mount points torn out.
 
]

airbags just stop your headlights shining in peoples faces and even brake distribution again when they level the legal payload of the vehicle .

Thats not quite correct about the brakes. Have seen about 3-4 cars in at work, (i recently graduated from a Holden dealership to a Toyota Dealership), with "Air Bags" with really crappy brakes.
The reason for crappy brakes is the air bags have lifted the rear of the vehicle up to original position, so the brake "proportioning valve" now thinks there is no weight in the back, so it does its job and limits the rear brake bias to reduce the amount of rear brakes.
Which now makes the car brake like it has a heavy trailer behind it without trailer brakes.
In every case we had to re-set the bias valve so they would stop properly. This will be true for the majority of utes out there.
 

muc the truck

Well-Known Member
Thats not quite correct about the brakes. Have seen about 3-4 cars in at work, (i recently graduated from a Holden dealership to a Toyota Dealership), with "Air Bags" with really crappy brakes.
The reason for crappy brakes is the air bags have lifted the rear of the vehicle up to original position, so the brake "proportioning valve" now thinks there is no weight in the back, so it does its job and limits the rear brake bias to reduce the amount of rear brakes.
Which now makes the car brake like it has a heavy trailer behind it without trailer brakes.
In every case we had to re-set the bias valve so they would stop properly. This will be true for the majority of utes out there.


I don't know about you , But since 65% of the braking is provided by the front brakes and most 1 ton utes sit there front in the air with a full 1 ton payload load , I personally feel a lot safer with load over my front wheels again so I have both brakes and steering . I get what your saying but you must be working on a lot of non abs vehicles like 75%, my Holden Colorado duel cab handles and brakes hands down with more control than what Holden ever made it fully loaded. There is no way on this earth I will ever drive a vehicle with its nose pointing in the air towing and that's why people buy level rides .


With utes now equipped with abs brakes the load proportioning valve has been deleted as its no longer required as the abs modulator both raises pressure and reduces brake pressure as required to eliminate wheel lock up while maintaining maximum possible braking efficiency to all wheels.
 
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bowie911

New Member
having airbags on my Disco4, I think they are great. normal height on the highway gives great stability and raising for offroad works for me. And yes I use it as a 4x4, did the cape last June and towed a conqueror camper no problems. Any suspension system wont work it its overloaded. So, plan what you need to take and don't overload it.:D:D
 
I find myself thinking back to the Mods thread here, in that a lot of the campers I see have to have EVERYTHING they have at home so no wonder their cars are overloaded.

I recently went on a trip and was amazed by the beautiful view over the lake...but even more amazed at the family next door with their back to it watching TV!

I like the 'less is more' attitude when I go camping - making do with as little as possible. But maybe that's just me.

Lets not overload, guys & gals :)
 

PJR NSW

Banned
having airbags on my Disco4, I think they are great. normal height on the highway gives great stability and raising for offroad works for me.

Yes being level helps but you still have all that weight on the wheels. Air bags do not move weight around. They just change it's height.

The car will still be as unevenly balanced as when it was when it was tail down. Simple physics.

I would have loved to see you on Gunshot and Palm and then going through Nolans when it was 1.3 for us. Any photos?

Have fun.

Phil
 
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