Absolutely ridiculous advertising sizes... again.

4x4_Mate

Member
Does anyone get this window ?

View attachment 70288

Probably comes up with the adblocker on, which I didn't put on my chrome browser, maybe my IT son did early on as a favour to me.

This window comes up spontaneously, sometimes it might be 20 seconds between them appearing, or other times up to a minute or so.
The window must be closed to do anything on the site.

It's definitely a turn off.
Yep, and these ones too.
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McGinnis

Active Member
In my humble opinion, the ads need to be a little annoying, otherwise there is little value for paid members. Having said that, if there is something that we can do for paid members to increase the value of the membership, happy to look at that as well. The ads though, are by far the bigger revenue generator compared to memberships.
I understand what you're saying, but I'm among the people who don't believe any internet forum provides enough value for me to actively pay for it. I jump on every now and then and have a look around - that's it.

Annoying ads won't drive a user like me to pay for the site - they'll drive me to use an ad blocker (which I do because the ads are so often obnoxious). I'm happy to set an adblock exception for sites that have ads that don't impact on my user experience, but the second they make viewing the page more difficult, or make a sound, or play video, either they're out or I am.

In general the best way to get a user to pay for a service is to incentivise that payment; disincentivising via ads, popups etc. rarely works unless you have a monopoly (e.g. YouTube).
 

Warby

Well-Known Member
I understand what you're saying, but I'm among the people who don't believe any internet forum provides enough value for me to actively pay for it. I jump on every now and then and have a look around - that's it.

Annoying ads won't drive a user like me to pay for the site - they'll drive me to use an ad blocker (which I do because the ads are so often obnoxious). I'm happy to set an adblock exception for sites that have ads that don't impact on my user experience, but the second they make viewing the page more difficult, or make a sound, or play video, either they're out or I am.

In general the best way to get a user to pay for a service is to incentivise that payment; disincentivising via ads, popups etc. rarely works unless you have a monopoly (e.g. YouTube).
Even YouTube provides incentive for the paid service - you get to save videos to view offline and continue playing in the background / while screen is turned off or locked on mobile devices.
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
It's not just the adds that are an issue. The site has a number problems including security issues. A quick webpage test will highlight most of them
Fortunately the site has great content.
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
And so to the crux of it all.
For the site to survive it needs
  1. someone that is willing to run the site.
  2. an income stream.
  3. content that people are willing visit the site for.
  4. members willing to contribute content.
  5. a website that is pleasurable and safe to use.
It's a fine balance but at the moment 2. is at issue with 5.
 

callmejoe

Well-Known Member
It is wearing thin on me. I use my phone and the pop up adds effect me getting to my icons and menu buttons easily. I gather Admin will just push the limit on how much they can push out before activities is effective.

A Numbers game.
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
How petty are some people? "Patriot - spend money to fix my ugly ads, but don't expect me to help you. You can go to hell financially"

Guys I am sure it's a pain. Keep in mind one person sets up, runs and funds this site as a side gig. That benefits thousands of us. He has to fix issues by himself in his spare time because of the costs involved.

We see people with $60,000 - $150,000 vehicles who are posting on threads every day also complaining about ads. Lots of 'well known' member status people too. :rolleyes: IF that's you, stop bitchin and cough up $20

For 5 cents a day, or a few beers a year, you can get rid of all the ads and support this site. I also see people posting about how we should support xx yy and they won't even support this site.

You know what. Pay the measly $20 a year, then James can get some assistance to fix the site and it will grow. That way we all benefit. Adblockers only smoke the situation worse.

One day James will say "enough is enough - this thing costs me too much money and time - screw it, I'm shutting it down.

The same people who don't pay $20 will bitch about James shutting the site down.

If enough people do the right thing we may even get the tracks back. LOL
 

Albynsw

Well-Known Member
I agree with you Boobook and happy to pay as I use the site frequently but if I was just dropping by to checkout the site, the ad format would make me move on pretty quickly as it is a big turnoff and a negative experience.

I think the point is other forums seem to be able to manage their ad format so as to allow a good user experience and still deliver the income stream
 

Triton14

Well-Known Member
Not knocking the sites admin as as I have already mention I know how much just even site maintanance & update costs but personally there is enough "things" out there trying to get money out of me not to see adds, youtube, spotify etc & plenty of other websites that want you to pay a subscription to look at it.

I think to date I am on about 10 different forums from Aus to USA to the UK, if they all wanted subscription not to see ads I'd have t take out a bank loan :rolleyes:

Add them all up & the monthly costs starts eroding away at your rent money, along with your phone, internet, foxtel or netflix, insurance, registration....................................................it just goes on & on.

Each forum owner operates & generates income however they can & sure they have to make it viable.
If this form is working then great but yeh if I was a new member & came here I was bombarded by the ads as they were I wouldnt hang around.

Take a look at another Aussie forum- fishraider, another site I am a member, been around since 2006, no ads, no paid membership, no site sponsors but the owner does have his own fishing App called Deckee which again is free but I'm sure he would be somehow generating something from it.

Anyway I just installed an ad blocker the other day called iblock & now all is good with all web pages I now see, should have done it ages ago.

Also I am against people like google or anyone else collecting data from you in what your looking at & trying to use it against you!
Just emptying the spam folder in my email account daily give me the.......................:mad:

Rant over...........................have a nice day;)
 

Swaggie

Moderator
What people have to realize is the cost to get the forum up to this stage, remember the big upgrade a couple of years ago, it wasn’t cheap and James bore that cost.
It’s a double edged sword, it obviously requires more $$$ and very few donate (Thankyou to the members that do support this site we obviously need more :D;) ) so the next step was ADVERTISING and it’s the easiest for revenue..
I use a dumbass Apple phone because i was given it very cheap,I don’t use an adblocker and the ads are fine for me,i get the initial couple when i access the site, Haven’t looked at a desktop for awhile.

It’s a shame and I’m not completely sure why there’s little Sponsorship from Companies, maybe it’s too expensive or a different model needs to be looked into...
 

peterfermtech

Well-Known Member
How petty are some people? "Patriot - spend money to fix my ugly ads, but don't expect me to help you. You can go to hell financially"

Guys I am sure it's a pain. Keep in mind one person sets up, runs and funds this site as a side gig. That benefits thousands of us. He has to fix issues by himself in his spare time because of the costs involved.

We see people with $60,000 - $150,000 vehicles who are posting on threads every day also complaining about ads. Lots of 'well known' member status people too. :rolleyes: IF that's you, stop bitchin and cough up $20

For 5 cents a day, or a few beers a year, you can get rid of all the ads and support this site. I also see people posting about how we should support xx yy and they won't even support this site.

You know what. Pay the measly $20 a year, then James can get some assistance to fix the site and it will grow. That way we all benefit. Adblockers only smoke the situation worse.

One day James will say "enough is enough - this thing costs me too much money and time - screw it, I'm shutting it down.

The same people who don't pay $20 will bitch about James shutting the site down.

If enough people do the right thing we may even get the tracks back. LOL
So you think that making a site ugly with adds blocking the screen to get people to pay a $20.00 membership fee is a great business model? Having a 15 second load time when google says that 50% of viewers leave a site if it is not active after 3 seconds makes sense? Not properly using SEO to get the full benefit of the content makes sense? Having security issues in the web server setup makes sense?
I commend @Patriot for his effort in running this site and I understand that he is a victim of the sites success but this site needs someone with the necessary skills to run a big broom through it and clean it up. If people that have been members on this site for years are pissed off imagine how a new visitor must feel.
 

Warby

Well-Known Member
How petty are some people? "Patriot - spend money to fix my ugly ads, but don't expect me to help you. You can go to hell financially"

Guys I am sure it's a pain. Keep in mind one person sets up, runs and funds this site as a side gig. That benefits thousands of us. He has to fix issues by himself in his spare time because of the costs involved.

We see people with $60,000 - $150,000 vehicles who are posting on threads every day also complaining about ads. Lots of 'well known' member status people too. :rolleyes: IF that's you, stop bitchin and cough up $20

For 5 cents a day, or a few beers a year, you can get rid of all the ads and support this site. I also see people posting about how we should support xx yy and they won't even support this site.

You know what. Pay the measly $20 a year, then James can get some assistance to fix the site and it will grow. That way we all benefit. Adblockers only smoke the situation worse.

One day James will say "enough is enough - this thing costs me too much money and time - screw it, I'm shutting it down.

The same people who don't pay $20 will bitch about James shutting the site down.

If enough people do the right thing we may even get the tracks back. LOL
How many websites do you visit on a regular basis? How many of those do you pay to visit?

The majority of visitors will never pay to access this forum. That is a simple fact and you can carry on about how unfair it is all you like - it won't change it.

If the website user experience continues to get worse, which it has done pretty consistently over the past year or so then it WILL die. That isn't because people aren't willing to pay $20 to get access to a forum, it's because the site admin have chosen to prioritise monetisation over all else lately. If I'm wrong about that then show me ANY example of a site change lately aimed at making things better for the users rather than increasing revenue.

A 4x4 forum is NEVER going to generate enough income from paid memberships to cover costs, let alone provide additional funds for expansion and other endeavours. To be viable it has to rely on advertising, sponsorship, paid partnerships, etc. For those revenue streams to work the site has to be somewhere that people want to visit, sign up and become active on - smashing people in the face with ads at every opportunity isn't going to achieve that.

What does this website provide right now that makes it worth paying for? The tracks database is broken and has been for God knows how long, without any word on when it might be back. Trips, get togethers, etc are organised by members.. all I see is a forum, just like a thousand others on the internet, with content generated by the members. The Insurance tab is a 404 error. The Campsites and Clubs pages provide nothing that can't be found elsewhere. Sorry if this all sounds very harsh, but to get people to pay you have to provide value FIRST - not demand money from people and then (maybe) provide them value later. If things are broken - fix them. If you can't fix them in a cost effective manner, retire them and find a different way to provide value to users.

If I had spent a FRACTION on the development that had supposedly been spent here I would be PISSED and getting the developers to fix their screw ups, not expecting members to just put up with it and telling people if they don't like it then pay up.

I am genuinely glad that there are members here who want to support James and the site by contributing financially, but that doesn't obligate anyone else to do so.

I like this forum - Hence why I poke my head in here pretty much every day, usually multiple times a day, but at the end of the day it is just a forum and right now it is a forum that has a number of issues that need fixing.
 
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boobook

Well-Known Member
How many websites do you visit on a regular basis? How many of those do you pay to visit?
I pay for 2 forums Warby. I dunno how may I visit, but this would be one of the top 2 or 3. One, EO is a commercial site. I only pay for that because they have great tracks ( hint hint James) that you have to be a member to get. And I pay for this site. I'd also pay for IH8MUD, LCOOL and Track Trailer forums if they had the option.

I also regularly use and pay for the AFR, Australian, Financial Times, International Herald Tribune, and The Economist Newspapers. Google doesn't make any news so it's only the readers who can fund decent journalism. Otherwise, all we'll get fed is self-published stuff, much of which is self-interested propaganda posing as news.

I'm not saying the ads are great, and I wouldn't want to tell James how he should run and design this site. But for regular users paying $20 is a better option than complaining. For occasional users, Ads are appropriate when done ok. Let's help James fund doing the ads right by supporting him financially.

That's all I'm saying.
 
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