Discussion in 'General 4x4 Discussion' started by barcher, May 12, 2018.
Out of the 3 I'd go the y62, but if I win lotto on tuesday I'm getting a patriot supertourer 200 at no point did I ever consider the LR. But it was ultimately good to see the 3 all together and how close they actually are
They should have included the new Rolls Royce SUV. I heard a discussion about it on Sydney radio yesterday. To select 4wd you press a button marked "Everywhere" and apparently it then goes everywhere. What more could you possible want and it only costs $685,000? https://www.carsales.com.au/editori...aRtL7rEIMbC0PalLWcybDXdRelE4hDZQaAqAzEALw_wcB
Yep have to agree , I have been looking at the Y62 , LC200 GXL and GX over the last couple of weeks , when you see what the Patrol has as std even in the Ti lowest spec model for less money , compared to the LC , its really a no brainer , it makes the GXL Cruiser look like a poverty pack , you have to go up to the Sahara to get some of the things the Ti has .
I haven't driven a Patrol yet , that will happen this week .
They could have come up with a better paint job for that price
That's an interesting read. It shows there is no single "Best".
Those motoring reviews never seen to look at the vehicles from a typical long term owners view.
IMHO they should include real world use.
Landrover Disco 5 seems the best for touring on a mix of towing, bitumen and dirt roads. Great economy and smooth. Great suspension set up. They certainly seems to have fixed the reliability problems too.
But not so good for serious offroading. No ability to have a bullbar, winch or anything less that 19" tyres from the factory. Nowhere to put a 2nd battery. No where to get a service once away from the east coast, capital cities or Alice Springs. Small tank, Limited accessories.
The Patrol goes like the clappers, and surprisingly has a large number of after market accessories. Fantastic value for money with the fruit but it does drink 98 octane petrol like a fish. Even that large tank only gets a limited range. Cheap plastics inside and no space for a 2nd battery under the bonnet. Great for towing 3.5t and you can use the money you saved from not getting a 200 to pay for Petrol for 5 years. Though 30 - 33 l/100km of 98 Octane must hurt every time you fill up when towing 3.5T. With only 30 sold a month, I'd be concerned about spares in 5 years. You need a mass laser multi spectrometer to measure the thickness of the panels and paintwork too. The main downside is dealing with friggin Nissan and Dealer's awful back up. IMHO ok for a weekender but not touring.
The Landcruiser. Well I have one, but Toyota are milking every cent out of owners. Woeful value and the fuel economy should be better, especially when towing. And the gearbox is annoying how it drops out of lock up at the slightest hint of a hill when towing. That motor is brilliant and loves sitting on 1500 RPM. Not as fast as the Nissan but it just loves slow revs off road. Tons of accessories, room for a big second battery under the bonnet and a full proper chassis. The rear seat set up is bloody annoying too.
Probably a Disco 4 with Green Oval rims. Especially if there were a few more dealers around the place.
Interesting comparison. I do love my current D3 disco, however I think LR really cocked it up with the exterior design as its not the best looking vehicle in the bunch, to be honest I think even though the 200 is the oldest design its the best all rounder as far as looks are concerned. The Y62 looks better from the front but the rear end looks terrible.
I think for practical touring the 200 would most likely be the best bet as there is plenty of accessories available, although everything you need is also available with the patrol too, but as sales show the petrol engine holds it back somewhat. Time will only tell what gets developed for the new Disco however.
For myself personally with 4 kids I need a practical 3rd row, which was one of the main reasons I went for the D3 as nothing else comes close to its 3rd row comfort. I havent had a look at the new Disco but hopefully its one thing they have carried on well. The Patrol is also up there with 3rd row comfort and design. The 200 for the 3rd row is honestly no better than my old 80 series as its still the same basic design and IMHO is limited to smaller kids only (or bigger ones for a short time)
If I was to be in the market tomorrow I'd be personally looking at a Y62 or a D4 (I wouldn't even think about the new Disco until I've seen what LR comes up with for the Defender replacement). I've seen a few post on various forums from Y62 owners and the fuel economy that they report seems alot better than what the comparison reported so I dont think people should dismiss the petrol straight away.
I really like the D4, and nearly brought 1, went did all the test drive stuff, i think it was way ahead of the 200 which as saw it, was way over price in the end we brought neither. But then came along the Y62, once the price drop it was a no brainer, I just love the V8. 2. Things helped me go with the Y62 though.
1. I'm not convinced of the long term life of todays diesels and the cost of repairs. Care little if you can fix it remotely, its more about reliability.
2. Price, in a y62 you get alot for your $$
Fuel as I have posted many times is yes heavier than most, well probably all 4wds.
But around town as i sit..
18/19 L per 100km.
19/23 L per 100km towing camper.
25/27 L per 100km 3t offrd caravan.
Runs on all petrol fuels.
I have a D4 as you can see. I tow a 2.6t Caravan and I get about 15ltrs per 100kms, real measurement not the trip computer as I have bigger tyres as well. And I sit on the speed limit (or more) when I can. The main issue I have with the latest New Discovery (note is not called a D5) is the rear middle row seats do not fold flat so loading it up for me would be a pain. The rear seats however are just as (if not more) comfortable than a D3/4 which are the best 3rd seats bar none (except a new Disco). I guess eventually if the new disco has a production run as long as the d3/4 without serious changes, then the aftermarket will provide the equipment. The small fuel tank will be solved (just like a D3/4) with a rear bar mounted spare. They are selling a lot in overseas markets (UK and USA) so it wont be long for the aftermarket to catch up. But I must say I prefer my shoe box/brick on wheels. Its boxy for a reason..... most items we buy are square or cubed in shape not rounded.
Saw the comparison, great read
Patrol is literally bang for your buck but a lot of people are concerned when touring about spare parts + how mechanics deal with problems
I'm not the biggest fan of the new Discovery look, still prefer the old box look, just a bit expensive in terms of pricing for LR which may hinder people from purchasing one
Dirvine. I think the main problem with the New Disco is an aluminium monocoque chassis. Great for weight and fuel saving, but what do you do for a bullbar, winch rear bar etc. I guess some aftermarket company will solve that but not in a hurry.
Given what i ask my vehicle to do, there is no way i'd buy a new one, no matter how good it was....
Well the SVX disco comes with a factory rear mounted winch (and a thumping supercharged 5L V8 )so I don't think there will be any issue strength wise there.
I dont like bull bars on Disco or Range Rovers. They look ugly and just make a beautiful car look like the rest of the rabble!!!You can put a winch on a D4 and Range Rover without a Bull bar as I have and its discrete and unless you look closely you dont even know its there. I have heard many merits of Bull bars but in all my 4wding with a bull bar at the front, I have never hit a bull or any other animal for that matter. My opinion (and yest its mine) is that they are a heavy unnecessary weight to carry around and for me have served no useful purpose.
It was an interesting comparison, one of many of the three major brands. To narrow it down i saw the Patrol as an excellent value for the dollar, and one i'd seriously condsider. And if you look more closely, many of the Y62's features have been adopted ( or replicated if you wish as the Japanese do) from the good old Range Rovers of the yesteryears i.e V8 Petrol, independent suspension all around, Traction mode function (aka Terrain Response), hydraulic stability control just to name a few.
The LC200 is similar too with V8 both petrol and Diesel, permanent 4x4, except the LC keeps the rear solid axle, KDSS suspension and off course Toyota's excellent reputation for dealer network and reliability (though reliability has slipped a little with Toyota in recent years), however you do pay a Toyota Tax for the privilege.
The Discovery has kinda taken over where the humbled Range Rover has left off to move further upmarket into the Luxury & Upper Luxury 4x4 segment. I took a ride in the Discovery TDV6 at the recent 4x4 show in Lardner Park with the Land Rover experience team and was absolutely amazed at what this vehicle can do.
The Disco is whole generation ahead in the 4x4 technology world making easy work of the challenging terrain. A lot of it (if not all) is electronically assisted and/or controlled off course, but the vehicle demonstrated how little driver input was required needing only to focus on where you are actually going, amazing stuff.
Now i did query the driver who was actually one of the LR developing engineers from the UK about the 20 inch tyres and their suitability in offload terrain (seeing this question is on everyone's lips), and he replied that the low profile tyre rim combinations behave very differently to say 16 & 17 inch rims in the sense that you don't actually need to reduce the pressures on this model as the newer revised Terrain Response 2 will work out exactly & automatically the correct traction aid required from both lockers (rear and central) as well as TC on the front wheels to drive you out in say extreme Sandy, Muddy situations. And these settings are set for the correct tyre pressure. i asked ' Yeah but what about Rocky conditions'? He said, LR does not recommend, infact they strongly advise against lowering pressures in low profile tyres because a.) you will pinch the sidewalls (yeah well we know that already) and b.) these tyres are designed and perform better in riding over the rocks rather than moulding the rock. However he did also mention that there is still the 19 inch rim option available, and there are AT tyres for them and coming out soon in the 20 inch range which no doubt will be expensive at first. He finished off by saying that you won't need anything more than AT tyres, as the terrain response is apparently so advanced!! LR quietly renders the vehicle 'Unboggable' (his words not mine!!).
Well the Brits said that about the Titanic didn't they!! So i guess like all new things on the market is that people don't always like change, but give it time and many will either accept the newer features or remain with the old for as long as they can, because eventually these new 'high tech' features that Land Rover are pioneering today, will filter down to just about all 4x4's in the coming years.
I remember even when the LC200 first appeared in 2006, they were bagged for supposedly going soft, too much electrics etc. etc.!! But they did turned out to become increasingly popular and very sought after!!, just look at the re-sale.
So its Y62 Patrol for Excellent Value, LC200 for reliability & dealer network & LR Discovery for advancement and refinement of 4x4 technology!! Take your pick!
Redandy. I think the LR engineer either might be having a lend of you or has never been off road. I don't care how good a 4wd is, low profile passenger construction tyres are not suitable for rocks or sand. I witnessed a RR blowing a 22 inch tyre in very mild conditions. The owner tried to get LT's but was told by LR and several tyre dealers that there is no such thing - Passenger construction road tyres only. They did tell him they are suitable for off road though, and he believed them. He got 2 hours into a 3 day trip out of Dargo, got a puncture and decided to go home, he has never been 4wding again despite buying a tent, fridge, etc. He is now considering an old RR just for camping.
I think what the engineer meant but didn't say is "given you HAVE to have low profile, passenger construction tyres, it's best not to let them down, and you will forego off road capability as a result." Lets see how unboggable it is climbing a wet clay track with passenger road tyres at road pressure, or crossing dunes at 36 PSI.
I love how the "unstoppable" RR is struggling then stuck and an old Patrol casually drives by. I'd love to see that even on a 10 degree hill.
Speaking of tyre pressures and Discos, I remember a video of Andrew St Pierre White taking one along Baboon's Pass in Africa. In the video he made mention of actually increasing the tyre pressure instead of reducing it on the very rocky road. It was to protect the sidewall. I love the D4 but the big rims are a serious compromise in my opinion. Sand is its worst surface by a long shot, I've seen them bogged with experienced drivers where I've been able to drive by without trouble. No car is perfect, but you would think Land Rover should be able to build a Disco sitting on 17" rims without any effort at all? There are other cars around that heavy which don't need whopping calipers to clear the rim. At the end of the day it seems like a fashion statement to me.
There is a 4x4 Australia video on YouTube with the discos doing the Australian bight.... Puncture after puncture.
And having helped a range rover out off long plain last month he got 3 punctures in 70km...me... I had none and my tyres will be replaced as they will be at the Wear lines by the end of the year... Same track, same speed, and I was carrying a family of four and our camping gear, he had himself.
I would not go above 17 inch rims for offroad work unless you are running 35 or above tyres
Well the reality is that 4x4s are putting lower profile rims onto their newer models all the time, it’s just part of the new era which reiterates what I was saying that a lot of us don’t like change. We can sit here all day and pull out misguided videos off YouTube, I can post 100s of videos with Landcruisers and Patrols getting rescued by Disco’s you know so where do you draw the line? I’m sceptical too about the newer disco, but after taking that drive, I kinda see it a little different.
Boobook when we’re talking 22 inch rims, that’s going to a whole new level again! You’re virtually riding on the rims there, you’re not going to find anything for those rims, I could have told you that. I’m betting he had an RR sport. You should go for a drive with the LR experience team!! Might make a believer out of you yet!!
redandy, you are correct, it was a RR sport and it was extreme, also the issue in that Video was the road tyres, not the vehicle, but that's kind of the point. Passenger construction tyres with a low profile simply are not up to the job of offroading. And if you can't get higher sidewall AT construction for a new LR 5 what do you do?
Can you get an L/T AT 255/60 that isn't a road tyre tread for a Disco 5?
Separate names with a comma.