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4wders for shutting tracks?

Discussion in 'General 4x4 Discussion' started by littleGem, May 6, 2018.

  1. littleGem

    littleGem Active Member

    Wondering what you guys think of this, me and a mate where having a drink or 6 of Jack's finest when the talk got to track closures, mainly Daniels point Road in the watagans and a couple of well known (to the area) groups who continue to drive it and trash it.
    Now he voiced that these days he's all for track closures, 4wders as a whole seem to disregard gates, track closures etc etc and just do what they want as they want, not cleaning up after themselves and even quoted the go to places such as the simmo, OTT etc, saying they're now all getting trashed and he would vote in a heart beat to shut the public out.
    Now I only really have time to visit the local tracks around sydney and once I went down to vic, so I haven't seen a lot of the places he hasm he's also got a couple of years on me so has seen these places transform over the last 10 years or so, but surely it can't be that bad to turn a season 4wd tourer bassically against 4wding as a hobby and as a community.
    So to the guys who have been there and done that, what do you think? Is he right, is the 4wd community as a whole going down hill fast and are we our own worst enemy?
     
  2. smitty_r51

    smitty_r51 Well-Known Member

    It has never been easier to do a Simpson crossing or a trip to the top... As it gets easier the amount of Muppets on the tracks increases... Is it a bad as your mate says, maybe not, well it be very soon... Yup!
     
  3. littleGem

    littleGem Active Member

    Should prob note he has to be one of the most conscius, respectable campers Ive ever known, to the point he makes me feel like I'm trashing a campsite just by stepping on it, you can see the care and respect for this land he has within 30 seconds of staying with him, he's also probably spent more time under canvas across the top of end of oz then most of the locals so I was a little shocked but not suprised with he's claims
     
  4. Albynsw

    Albynsw Well-Known Member

    I think it is a community wide problem and a percentage of them are 4wders
    Have a look at the local park or picnic area, the beach, the footy stand, concert or whatever venue and look at the mess left behind
    People are grubs in general these days
     
    Airstrike, cam04, Mr Rum and 9 others like this.
  5. Kippie

    Kippie Active Member

    It's a small number of hoons that do the damage, but it's all of us that pay the price. We live near a regional park and we see the problem every day. When we confront these hoons they know that they do the wrong thing, but refuse to acknowledge that and use foul language and aggression to prove their manhood's god given right to trash the rules. And when we film their antics we're told that we breach their privacy. Idiots!
    The response from the relevant authorities is to close the tracks. We see the damage getting worse over time and unless these tracks are closed, there will not be much left for my grand kids to enjoy the bush. So, yes, I support closure of tracks where it is necessary to protect flora and fauna. We can always hike in and enjoy it.
     
    garry r likes this.
  6. Tink

    Tink Well-Known Member

    It is not necessarily hoons/bogans/dickheads trashing the place that is the concern in some places like the Simpson and the Cape, it is the sheer numbers. Go back 20 years and getting to the Tip or crossing the Simmo was a hardcore adventure for only the most experienced four wheel driver and their similarly tough vehicle. Nowadays, anybody with a fourbie, a lot straight off the showroom floor, can be seen in the most remote of locations. All the mags and the TV shows make it look so easy that everybody is doing it. Gees, sometimes the traffic on the French Line is like knockoff time in Bourke Street. I can certainly see a time when NP management will be forced to reduce visitor numbers in sensitive areas.
    Tink
     
    rogerazz likes this.
  7. Trophy truck 481

    Trophy truck 481 Active Member

    maybe we should look at getting pro active and step in ?
    we could have the problem track closed to clubs or groups only ? just thinking out loud
     
  8. Outrage

    Outrage 4x4 Earth Contributer

    My dad's stories from 20+ years ago, their were dickheads and majorly uninformed people back then. But as others have said, the volume is drastically higher now.

    Start putting tarmac on 4wd tracks so they last longer?
     
  9. nitrobrent

    nitrobrent Active Member

    I think that a lack of maintenance attributes to the erosion of tracks.
    Drains get blocked with leaves etc , water has to go somewhere.
    Budgets are spent mainly in the office these days.
     
    Airstrike likes this.
  10. Blue_haired_man

    Blue_haired_man Well-Known Member

    I think it’s a combination of factors. Dickheads, education, numbers, and maintenance. Should tracks be closed to everyone except hikers, clubs and groups? Not a chance in my book. Everyone deserves the chance to enjoy Australia, but the penalty for doing the wrong thing should be a hell of a lot harsher than they are at present.
     
  11. rogerazz

    rogerazz 4x4 Earth Contributer

    One of my favorite topics. I have been camping bush for about sixty five years and have seen immense changes due to many factors which others have mentioned here. To save closures of anything bush you have to have strict control by the authorities over education, behavior and most of all respect.
    Big challenge like that needs big dollars and who better to pay for it than the people who go out and use it. Yes, many of those will complain but we will still lose that right???? really?
    Maybe the blokes who flog us all the fourbys, their many expensive options, blokes who sell mags, dvd's, encourage their trips and tours,etc., should also be a part of this cost. Cos any 4wd show I watch has a sh#t load of advertising for the purchase of their products and are making money off our backs.
     
    Jaye and Swaggie like this.
  12. littleGem

    littleGem Active Member

    But what incentive is there for those doing the wrong thing, to actually stop? I know of guys who went "closed" tracks recorded themselves ripping down the signs, cutting locks etc etc putting it all over FB, NPWS even had footage of them in the track and just sent them a warning a letter so now they take the plates off and keep doing the same thing.
    They know they're doing the wrong thing amd they just don't care. Seams these days they're the majority not minority
     
    rogerazz likes this.
  13. Blue_haired_man

    Blue_haired_man Well-Known Member

    Simple, pass the track/infrastructure repairs full cost onto those caught plus a fine/impoundment of vehicles for those caught blatantly breaking into areas. But I won’t hold my breath of suitable punishments being actually dished out considering the current standards of the judiciary Australia wide.
    Cheers
     
    Swaggie and rogerazz like this.
  14. rogerazz

    rogerazz 4x4 Earth Contributer

    Will say it again and again and again.
    1.Someone has to pay for Rangers or the like, to patrol, have authority to apprehend and hand out the punishment.
    2. Those that infringe should not only pay fines but better still have immediate, I mean immediate confiscation, sale, destruction of their vehicles, camping and other equipment, depending on the severity of their misdemeanors.
    And please no P.C. self righteous, not me people, who keep whinging. Otherwise whinge about hoons having their cars crushed by the thousands.I also wish they would crush mobile phones being used illegally in cars as well.:eek:.
    Whew! Time for a bex and a lay down.
     
  15. Swaggie

    Swaggie Moderator


    Well like..

    People lighting fires and driving away without extinguishing them properly or not at all ,also leaving there cans and glass mostly from the piss up the night before and wake up seedy and can't be stuffed cleaning up there mess.. Instead of just having a plastic bag close by and stamping on your cans to take back home (To hard)...
    Shitting where they like and leaving everything unburied to blow and litter around camp grounds...

    The mud pigs that look for it even over summer so imagine what's happening over winter...

    Look at Noojee State Forest ,a few tracks have been closed especially close to the river where people like to camp, they've used big concrete cylinders with serious cables and gates on a couple of tracks, plus mowed over trees along tracks to stop further access.. Also removed the two pit toilets that were full of graffiti and burnt to the ground a couple of times... So they removed them....
    ... Everyone suffers because they're brain-dead..

    Without the above happening it would be a better experience out there for everyone ...
     
    Spooner, callmejoe and rogerazz like this.
  16. smwhiskey

    smwhiskey Member

    I think its a societal thing and comes down to just one thing..Respect (or a distinct lack thereof)
     
  17. RODEODAVE

    RODEODAVE Well-Known Member

    I would be happy for a user pays type system , Where you as a group or solo pay a fee to access an area .
    This fee give you the key to an area or areas , with all details of of owners and vehicles using the area .
    Then as a group or solo you will be more responsible for the care of the area you travel logging damage and or rubbish left behind by others
     
  18. smwhiskey

    smwhiskey Member

    You mean like 4WD parks where you pay to play.
    Just got back from a very dusty weekend at Jenowen Hills and seriously paying seems to make people worse.
    Out getting firewood last night and we would have been 200m off the track but there was still an empty Bundy can sitting there in the undergrowth. Wasn't faded so it probably hadn't been there too long.
     
  19. RODEODAVE

    RODEODAVE Well-Known Member

    yes I suppose you could call it pay to play but NP would have control over the areas entered and the amount of vehicles entering and time between entries .
    you as a group would take more care as you are responsible for damage / removal of rubbish .
    this would certainly take care of areas of importance and in the long run your group would build a friendship with the local NP office / ranger therefore opening up other areas for your group to access
    4WD parks just allow groups on mass into areas and really have no idea of who goes where
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  20. Mr Rum

    Mr Rum Well-Known Member

    In all honesty, the places he mentioned aren’t that bad. Not good at times, true, but not that bad really.

    If the rest of us take a few minutes out of our day to clean around camp, then the mess just goes away.

    Should we have to pick up other’s mess? No. But what’s the other option? Camp in filth and potentially have areas closed...

    A few weeks ago, in the dark, Jen and I found a nice little spot to camp while we were in the Pilbara.
    When the sun came up though, there was so much rubbish around that the place looked terrible.
    In the end I lit a fire made entirely of rubbish, and managed to keep it fed for half an hour easy. I even went as far as to put on gloves and pick up all the ladies pee papers.
    A beer bottle, and a soup tin we’re all I had to take with me, and when I left, the spot was totally transformed. Immaculate even.

    What saddens me, is that some of the rubbish had been there for ages, meaning many people must have just ignored it.
    Or worse, added their own piece. I mean who’s going to notice another couple of sheets of bog roll amungst what’s already here?


    Last year, we cleaned up a camp area near Poeppel Corner, and got half a garbage bag of bottles and cans.
    Only took me ten minutes, and again, transformed the place.
    I didn’t have disposable gloves with me, so I left the all the poo tickets behind that time.
    I would’ve burnt them, but to give you an idea, I could’ve easily filled a supermarket bag.

    That story alone makes the Simmo sound pretty bad, but I’ve crossed the Simpson Desert twice this year so far, and all I’ve picked up is a beer bottle, and an engine oil bottle, both left on the track, possibly fallen off vehicles last season. Who knows.
    On neither trip did I come across any filthy camp areas.
    I don’t know, maybe that’s because the filth is concentrated around the popular routes, or perhaps others are doing there bit to keep it tidy.

    Either way, I don’t think it’s that bad.


    As for people who ruin tracks. I’m pretty much with @rogerazz on that one.
    There needs to be some form of deterrent.
    Unfortunately, in today’s world they’d probably be able to claim that their parents didn’t love them right, and they’d get let off to do it again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018

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