$20K to spend what should I buy!? (need dual cab with tray or tub)

2luxes

Well-Known Member
Yea, the OP posted while I was typing.

I'm not a fan of dual cabs.
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There is nothing wrong with dual cabs or any other types of utes or cars providing you keep them within their design limits.

On my 2003 Hilux for example, the hand book says the maximum towing capacity is 1800 kgs and 180 kgs maximum on the tow ball. When you read through the towing instructions though, it says you must use a weight distributing hitch for any ball weight over 90 kgs. This requirement can create a major problem.

There are plenty of camper trailers and caravan's designed for off sealed road conditions but very few have ball weights below 90. An owner aware of this could install a WDH but the angles that could occur between the car and trailer, particularly on mountain tracks, could be excessive resulting in damage to the car, the trailer, the WDH or the whole lot.

A WDH lifts the rear of the car thereby taking weight off the rear axle and distributes it to the ground between the front wheels of the car and the caravan/trailer wheels. This reduces the risk of bending the chassis, cracking or breaking the rear axle housing, sheering the wheel studs or cracking the wheels.

An owner not aware of this, if it applies to his or her car, runs a very high risk of bending the chassis.

Chassis bend because of excessive amounts of heavy material (mass) too far back on their rear end. This weighs the rear end down. The owner blames the car's standard suspension so in go air bags or stiffer springs. The car now looks level but that heavy material is still there. Those aftermarket parts can not move heavy items further forward.

When the car's wheels drop into a depression in the road, the material falls and builds up momentum. A split second later the wheels rise up out of the depression. The chassis is heaved up and finds the material still wants to fall. It is then subjected to forces well above those it was supporting while stationary on a weigh bridge.

To make matters worse, the forces going up into the end of the chassis increase by the square of the car's speed.

Car manufacturers thrash some of their protypes to destruction. They know what their limits are but they can not control a car's biggest enemy i.e. a creature called the owner. Many of those creatures could break an anvil if given the chance.

I saw plenty of examples of that back in my days in the motor industry.
 

discomatt

Well-Known Member
I'd be very aware of "Problem" vehicles.

A lot of them have had multiple revisions over the years and some had a lot of faults fixed. If you just go across common knowledge
All Navaras rust through and snap timing chains
All Hiluxs are slow and blow tons of smoke
All Land Rovers are still broken down in a puddle of oil
All Patrols overheated and exploded
All Tritons bent in half

Check each vehicle in it's own right, nothing you get in your budget is going to be perfect but there should be many options in the dual cab range.
You forgot all Patrols have broken rear spring mounts, all Prado’s have cracked shirts and chassis rails where the engine mount should be, all 80 series have cracked chassis where the steering box should be attached, all cruisers have snapped hub bolts, all TDV6 Discovery’s have snapped cranks and I could go on all day ….
 
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Ron0z

Active Member
Consider vehicle auction houses. There are risks in that you don't get to test drive before purchase, but quite often you can inspect before bidding. You're more likely to get a better price through auction, so long as you're mindful of private used car prices. Some bidders go silly at auctions. I've bought from auction quite a few over the years. Though, never a 4WD. I've never paid more than $3000 and there have always been things wrong with them, but you'd expect that at those prices. In most cases the issues are minor. They show good photos on the site, some with video and sound which helps when they stick the camera under the bonnet and you can hear the engine running. Written reports are brief and you seldom get better than things like 'runs and drives well' or 'smoke from exhaust' or 'engine oil leak.' And I doubt the people preparing the reports are mechanics.
 

2luxes

Well-Known Member
You forgot all Patrols have broken rear spring mounts, all Prado’s have cracked shirts and chassis rails where the engine mount should be, all 80 series have cracked chassis where the street ox should be attached, all cruisers have snapped hub bolts, all TDV6 Discovery’s have snapped cranks and I could go on all day ….
Some parts often break but are fixed under warranty, sometimes after a new upgraded part is made. This is fairly common on new cars.

Soon after the 60 series was released, I was sent by the Toyota dealer that I was working for to a technical training course at Thiss Toyota in Sydney. They were the State distributors for Toyota commercial vehicles and 4wd cars.

During lunch one day the instructors told us about a new 60 that snapped a vital steering part way out in Western NSW. The owner told the dealer, the dealer told Thiss who immediately contacted Toyota in Japan.

The next day an engineering team arrived in Sydney. They were immediately taken out to conduct harmonics test on the dirt roads the car was being driven on. They soon realised it had not been designed for those conditions. A new part that did not break arrived a week later.

All volume selling cars usually have a few faults but manufacturers are not going to recall thousands of chassis and redesign them when they know the problem has been caused by overloading the rear end, installing aftermarket parts to lift it up then bouncing it up and down for who knows how many ks on rough roads.
 

Lost1?

Well-Known Member
Look for a vehicle that has a known service history. Spend time researching vehicles you are looking at so you can identify known issues during your initial inspection.

If looking at a Triton I would recommend a ML Triton as the 4M41 engine is capable of reliably doing 350,000k with regular maintenance. You will need to repair other stuff along the way though.

Stick your head under the vehicle to see if the paint used to seal the chassis rails has been sand blasted off the chassis. This will tell you if the vehicle has spent considerable time on sealed roads or dirt roads. Hence the suspension of a vehicle that has spent considerable time on dirt roads will likely need work.

No vehicles are.perfect, don't be drawn in by marque specific fan boys. Find the best example you can for the money you have.
 
You forgot all Patrols have broken rear spring mounts, all Prado’s have cracked shirts and chassis rails where the engine mount should be, all 80 series have cracked chassis where the steering box should be attached, all cruisers have snapped hub bolts, all TDV6 Discovery’s have snapped cranks and I could go on all day ….
To be fair my 80 has had it's steering box re-welded and engine mounts replaced. A lot of these stereotypes have some basis in truth, and when you're in the market for one of them they're worth keeping in mind.

One of my mate's Rangers had it's gearbox replaced under warranty, I have another mate whose Prado's front guard cracked within 150k km of moderate 4wding. These are all known issues with these models. You'd be nuts not to consider this when looking for a 2nd-hand 4wd.
 

linuxfan66

Active Member
my navara had the timing chain changed because of said timing chain issue. i should note navaras made after certain year OR ones that have already had the dual chain upgrade dont suffer from this
 

boobook

Well-Known Member
To be fair my 80 has had it's steering box re-welded and engine mounts replaced. A lot of these stereotypes have some basis in truth, and when you're in the market for one of them they're worth keeping in mind.

One of my mate's Rangers had it's gearbox replaced under warranty, I have another mate whose Prado's front guard cracked within 150k km of moderate 4wding. These are all known issues with these models. You'd be nuts not to consider this when looking for a 2nd-hand 4wd.
Agreed.

Frequently where there is smoke there is fire. The difference is generally how common the problems really are, and how catastrophic / expensive . And when you spend a lot of money you do need to check these things out.

Once you have short-listed a vehicle, go to that vehicle's specific forum, and talk to mechanics who will know. I see faults highlighted for some vehicles here that are isolated cases or completely unknown by owners in forums that have thousands of posters. And there are others that have chronic expensive mechanical issues. I am sure it applies to all brands.

Like anything you need to do your homework.
 

cam04

Well-Known Member
Cheaper older twin cabs. Hilux but you pay a premium, or RC dmax and Colorado.having said that the 3.0 hilux needs injector care, and the RC’s have body panels made of crepe paper but are mechanically as good as the 4jj1 platform got.
 

emilioramante

New Member
Cheaper older twin cabs. Hilux but you pay a premium, or RC dmax and Colorado.having said that the 3.0 hilux needs injector care, and the RC’s have body panels made of crepe paper but are mechanically as good as the 4jj1 platform got.
whats the 4jj1 platform?
 
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