Air Lockers (ARB , TJM) V's Auto Lockers (Detroits , auto's)

[Big Matt]

After have a conversation with someone about Detroits V's Air lockers, id be interested in hearing everyone's opinions and experiences with one or the other, or both.

Most people will flat out say that air lockers are the best form of locker to have, their reliable, they lock everything up for maximum traction and allow you to drive your truck like normal. But then theres the down sides, hard steering with the front lock in, broken CV's are often blamed on lockers.

People with Auto's swear by them, and ive seen a few who do have the runs on the board. They are ALWAYS on, so you dont get stuck, then turn the locker on, they allow you to keep maximum traction while not loosing steering, and they dont rely on a compressor (which ive seen many a story of people having compressors shag out) to lock the diff. The down sides ? Ive read many reports about heavy steering with a from Auto locker. Are they really as effective as an air locker for MAXIMUM grip

This isnt about making my mind up on which to get, im just interested in what people have to say

Cheers

Matt

 

[croozza]

After have a conversation with someone about Detroits V's Air lockers, id be interested in hearing everyone's opinions and experiences with one or the other, or both.

Most people will flat out say that air lockers are the best form of locker to have, their reliable, they lock everything up for maximum traction and allow you to drive your truck like normal. But then theres the down sides, hard steering with the front lock in, broken CV's are often blamed on lockers.

People with Auto's swear by them, and ive seen a few who do have the runs on the board. They are ALWAYS on, so you dont get stuck, then turn the locker on, they allow you to keep maximum traction while not loosing steering, and they dont rely on a compressor (which ive seen many a story of people having compressors shag out) to lock the diff. The down sides ? Ive read many reports about heavy steering with a from Auto locker. Are they really as effective as an air locker for MAXIMUM grip

This isnt about making my mind up on which to get, im just interested in what people have to say

Cheers

Matt

Hey Matt
I can give you the story that I have experienced from both sides of the fence.
I have Air lockers (F&R) in my current vehicle and swear by them, Turn them on when needed and turn them off when it is not needed, the vehicle drives heaps better on road now that the LSD is gone, it actually turns better into corners. Any locker you put in the front that is activated, will give you heavy steering and tend to drive you straight ahead, instead of turning, the beauty of the Air Locker is you can turn it off, Auto lockers you can't.
In regards to getting stuck then turning the Air Locker on, you should be thinking ahead and picking your line and knowing what will be required out of the vehicle and turn the Air Locker on before you need it. Auto lockers are on all the time, infact they really should be called Un-Lockers, when I had my last vehicle it had a auto locker in the rear, the vehicle would understeer wildly in the wet, even at low speeds, as you need to get off the power for the locker to unlock. As for the compressor, you will find they are very reliable as long as you get a good one, many people out there try to retro fit a cheap compressor for Air Lockers, that is where you would come undone. If you do the job properly first time and not try to cut corners and do things on the cheap, you will have trouble free operation.

 

[Big Matt]

Thanks for the reply croozza.

A mate of mine used to have a chev powered MQ patrol with air lockers, while his lockers worked well he killed 2 ARB compressors in a month, then one of their bigger ones. Then he got a Big Red from someone else and it has worked fine for years.

As for auto's, ive only been on one with an auto locker in the front, and to drive that one you wouldn't have known it was there. Ive been told that many of them arnt set up properly when installed, but i don't know anything about installing an auto locker so i cant really comment

 

[havok011101]

I've just ordered 2 Lokkas for my hilux, as they are a tonne cheaper!

Very curious to see how the understeer goes with the front locked in, but it doesn't turn great anyway!

Should have them installed in around a month.

 

[richardlnsw]

Hey Matt, i have been doing some research on this , while i am still a bit unclear i have sorted out most (for me that is). I was talking to a well known 4wd mechanic this morning, he fits ARB air locks or the auto locks (can't remember the brand). I was a bit concerned that with the auto he told me that they are on all the time and only turn off when cornering and stay on when going straight ahead. I think i like the sound of the air locker so i can turn it on or off when it suits me. I am fairly sure that all comp trucks use air locks? As far as ARB or TJM he has only ever done ARB. I spoke with my local TJM and they have told me that the new locks are in stock. He has fitted both ARB and TJM and believes that there is less that can go wrong with the TJM, this is confirmed by a lot of people. The compressor that TJM supply with the locks is too small, he admits this but they have told me that TJM will be putting out a new larger compressor in about 4 to 5 weeks. We will see! I am hearing a lot of complaints about ARB changing design and not making new parts the same size as old ones, not great for trying to repair anything. I am only getting a rear lock at this stage and i am leaning to the TJM, it sounds like it is stronger. I have had a bad time with ARB before stuffing up my suspension in a Suzuki Vitara. Told me it was alright to lift a car with bigger springs but left the original shocks in, car wandered all over the road.
Hope i may have helped, even if it is only a bit.

 

[Towie]

The advantages & disadvantages have been listed above however i am one of those that that likes get as far as i can before hitting the blue buttons..

So once 4wd will not get me any further i turn on the rear then the front when needed but with auto lockers you have no choice as to when & when not to use them..

for example if on a steep side slope when you do not want the lockers on its easy to turn the air lockers off...
I have had compressor go on me twice rendering lockers useless & having an open rear diff no lsd.
Obviously going up a steep hill & having to turn 90 degrees or more the steering becomes a big issue so you can turn off the air lockers but not the auto..

All said & done i think an Auto in the bum & air up the front would be an ideal arrangement.... i have a yota but if i had a troll again i would leave the LSD there & air the front..

 

[croozza]

. I spoke with my local TJM and they have told me that the new locks are in stock. He has fitted both ARB and TJM and believes that there is less that can go wrong with the TJM, .

I think you could read that a few ways,
1. Tjm will never say another brand was better than their one
2. They changed the design so less goes wrong with their own brand

It all comes down to the installer, if the installer does the job right you wont have any problems.

 

[Mongrel Lux]

The cheaper auto Lokkas are basicly the same as the old series 2 Detroit Lockers made back in the 1950s. Just tapered dog teeth that are forced to bounce & grind over each other. The series 3 & 4 Detoit lockers had square dog teeth ( not tapered ) for more possitive locking & seperate cam ramps & a hold out ring on both sides.

As a wheel becomes ground driven, the dog teeth pull away from each other, then the cam ramps slide up on each other & then the hold out ring pops out & the teeth spin freely on the hold out ring. over the last 30 years they have refind this to make it even smoother & faster. From fully locked to fully unlocked is 1/16 of a second & back to fully locked again is almost twice as fast. Much faster than you can reach for your ARB switch to turn your Air lockers off or on.

I like being able to steer, I find being able to turn corners kinda handy. 100% traction 100% of the time & ya can turn corners. You can not make a Detroit missbehave & believe me, I've tried!

& NO, the car dose not side side ways on off camber ( side sloping ) Tks either. I've driven my Hi Lux with open diffs & with twin series 5 Detroit Lockers & I can tell you that there is ABSOLUTLY NO DIFFERANCE WHAT SO EVER in the steering even in under ground car parks at less than 1/2 walking speed with the front hubs locked. In 2wd with the hubs locked, the auto locker is in constant opperation so it's a good test. I can jack 1 rear wheel off the ground & spin it EFORTLESSLY WITH 1 FINGER just as easly as I can an open diff. Another good test.

havok011101:-
A mate of mine has twin LOKKAs in his Hi Lux & runs heavy LSD oil in them & some of that Moly ( or what ever it is ) stuff wich is a very slippery gear oil additve & he says it makes the Lokka alot smoother than normal gear oil. He finds that under full power going up a hill & round a bend that he gets under steer big time. So he just backs off a little bit on the apex of the corner & it steers just fine.

Don't get me wrong. The ARB Air locker is very good locker. ARB is a MAJOR sponser of all winch comps, so it makes sense to use their product. That said, if they were unreliable, no one would use them anyway.

I've done nearly 300,000 kms on my series 5 Detroit lockers & I'ld never have anything else even if it was free. But the cheeper lockers are HALF THE PRICE & come with DIY instalation instructions if you're handy with a spaner. So it's good to know that there is some thing for everyone & every budget.

 

[Mongrel Lux]

I've just ordered 2 Lokkas for my hilux, as they are a tonne cheaper!Very curious to see how the understeer goes with the front locked in, but it doesn't turn great anyway!Should have them installed in around a month.

Oh & one more thing he dose. Every time he is traveling from 1 Tk to another on 2wd dirt roads, he FREES his FEE WHEELING HUBS. So the front Lokka is not opperating & has NO affect on steering.

A front auto locker also gives you more control going DOWN HILL. Twin Detroits give you a HELL OF ALOT MORE control down hill. Coming down Gentle Annie last weekend I had even more control than the bloke with chains & twin air lockers but maybe they weren't on.

 

[cruising62]

hay grate input guys,i'm toying with what lockers to put in my cruiser but the jury's sill out, maybe autos in the back and air in the front. hmmmm

 

[CHUAH]

I have always liked the ARB air lockers and infact last week I fitted front and rear ARB lockers to my GU. My mate with the jeep also fitted them but for him it's only the rear as the Jeeps have a week front diff etc...

I like the fact that I have full control over them (on or off) and the compressors can also pump up the tyres.... most of the time if we turn the front on it's only when we are going slow and mostly driving a straight line uphill, therefore, the heavyness in the steering won't be as bad as if you were trying to drive it normally on the road etc... I don't think you will ever turn the front on when you are on the normal road (otherwise yes, it would be very heavy to steer!)

People I know including myself with front and rear air lockers will use 80% rear and 20% front, the front is only really used when you are going up hill and when one of the front wheels is off the ground...

I also like to try to drive my car normally to see how far I get before getting stuck and turning on the air lockers... once on, it's a matter of continuing to drive the same line and without any extra momentum.

I LOVE IT!

I think like anything, which ever one you get, (auto or air operated) it's a matter of getting use to driving the car and getting to know and feel for it.. and you will swear by which ever one you've got... certainly, with is better then without!

Cheers!

 

[Mongrel Lux]

I like the fact that I have full control over them (on or off) and the compressors can also pump up the tyres....

People I know including myself with front and rear air lockers will use 80% rear and 20% front,

the front is only really used when you are going up hill and when one of the front wheels is off the ground...


I LOVE IT!

I think like anything, which ever one you get, (auto or air operated) it's a matter of getting use to driving the car and getting to know and feel for it.. and you will swear by which ever one you've got... certainly, with is better then without!

Cheers!

Spot on. All locker are great & the differances between them give people a REAL CHOICE. Price is a huge factor for some people & all Lockers are a HELL OF ALOT BETTER THAN NONE or an LSD ( unless you have a Patrol ) as the Patrols' LSD is amost as good as a locker & out lasts all others I'm told.

" The front is only used up hill "?? Not so. When you lift a wheel in the air, all the power goes to that wheel & NO power goes to the wheel on the ground ( wich also has the full weight of your vehical on it ). Exactly the same thing hapens when going DOWN HILL over rock ledges & steps, loose shaley sections, & slippery down hills. All the HOLDING POWER ( engine breaking ) goes to the wheel with litttle or no traction.

As a wheel goes over a ledge or step, it is effectivly off the ground & the other wheel lets go, so you lunge forward & pick up speed. If there's a series of steps/ rough ground, you loose traction. A front locker gives you ALOT MORE control down hill.

Don't let me or anyone else tell you wich one to get. That's YOUR CHOICE. What's important here is you making an INFORMED choice now you know how they all work.

Cheers
Mal

 

[CHUAH]

Spot on. All locker are great & the differances between them give people a REAL CHOICE. Price is a huge factor for some people & all Lockers are a HELL OF ALOT BETTER THAN NONE or an LSD ( unless you have a Patrol ) as the Patrols' LSD is amost as good as a locker & out lasts all others I'm told.

" The front is only used up hill "?? Not so. When you lift a wheel in the air, all the power goes to that wheel & NO power goes to the wheel on the ground ( wich also has the full weight of your vehical on it ). Exactly the same thing hapens when going DOWN HILL over rock ledges & steps, loose shaley sections, & slippery down hills. All the HOLDING POWER ( engine breaking ) goes to the wheel with litttle or no traction.

As a wheel goes over a ledge or step, it is effectivly off the ground & the other wheel lets go, so you lunge forward & pick up speed. If there's a series of steps/ rough ground, you loose traction. A front locker gives you ALOT MORE control down hill.

Don't let me or anyone else tell you wich one to get. That's YOUR CHOICE. What's important here is you making an INFORMED choice now you know how they all work.

Cheers
Mal

Hi Mal...

So if you are going up hill and say your front right wheel is off the ground that's when I would turn on the front locker so the front left will connect with the front right and both will turn....right?

... thanks for the info about how downhill with front locker works... will have to try it next time!

I know the rear LSD in the patrol is great however it is still not 100% lock and when I want it lock, I WANT IT LOCKED!!! Now I know I will have it LOCKED!!

Also there's no harm to engage and disengage the front lockers frequently when turning a sharp bend when need be during a uphill or downhill tough track right?

 

[Mongrel Lux]

Hi Mal...

So if you are going up hill and say your front right wheel is off the ground that's when I would turn on the front locker so the front left will connect with the front right and both will turn....right?

... thanks for the info about how downhill with front locker works... will have to try it next time!

I know the rear LSD in the patrol is great however it is still not 100% lock and when I want it lock, I WANT IT LOCKED!!! Now I know I will have it LOCKED!!

Also there's no harm to engage and disengage the front lockers frequently when turning a sharp bend when need be during a uphill or downhill tough track right?

Yep. All 100% spot on mate. Even the best LSD in the wold is not as good as any Locker( Auto or Manual ), as LSD is Limited Slip Diff. It ONLY limits the the slip ( wheel spin ). It dose NOT eliminate it ( only a locker dose that ) & ALL LSDs need a minimum of 15% traction on the spining wheel to tranfer some torque to the wheel with more traction. So If an LSD has a wheel in the air or one with less than 15% traction, NO TORQUE AT ALL will be transfered to the other wheel & their cluch packs do eventualy ware out.

There are a few gear driver LSDs, but why would you bother.

The Detroit is so sensitive, that it partcialy disengage when a wheel goes over a " cats eye " in the middle of the road or very slight drift like from the centre of your lane towards the white line it will provide enough differential action for that. So there is NO increase in tyre ware even with the front hubs locked in 2wd ( as I do ).

Most people don't know ANYTHING about Detroit lockers or how they work & what makes them different from other auto lockers. So if they have a much better understanding of ALL lockers, they can make a well informed choice on which locker suites them best.

Mal

 

[richardlnsw]

I think you could read that a few ways,
1. Tjm will never say another brand was better than their one
2. They changed the design so less goes wrong with their own brand

It all comes down to the installer, if the installer does the job right you wont have any problems.

Hey crooza, i think that tjm and arb are as bad as each other although here in port macquarie i have got to know Ric at tjm quite well and he is happy to fit either, he thinks that both are good and even though the rumours are out there that arb leak oil he has never actually experienced it. He has just stated the facts for me about both, i am going to make my mind up (one day i hope) from talking to all my fellow 4by's. I am only going to fit a rear locker in my prado to start with, i am starting to think that maybe i should look at the auto's a bit closer.
It's great reading everyone's coments, i am not real good mechanically so it's good to help me understand so i am a bit better prepared.
Safe drivin' .

 

[Bainsy]

i i have air lockers both ends because i like to choose wether my lockers are in, i also work with air lockers on a daily basis, all makes and brands on 4wd's and truck's so i know how good they are! i have ARB front and rear, never had a problem!

 

[Doc]

... our Patrol is getting an Eaton ELOCKER - had a look at all the lockers so far - how they are fitted - how often they "may" be used and the ideal servicing of each compared to use etc ..... I am no motor mechanic but am confident an Elocker is the best for our use.

 

[Mongrel Lux]

... our Patrol is getting an Eaton ELOCKER - had a look at all the lockers so far - how they are fitted - how often they "may" be used and the ideal servicing of each compared to use etc ..... I am no motor mechanic but am confident an Elocker is the best for our use.

Welcome aboard mate. I must admit I don't know much about the new E Locker, but they would have to have a good idea of their competion. So, I'm guessing they would be brety good also. From what I gather, they're a Magneticly opperated, activated Elctricaly & I'ld love to hear what you think of them & learn more about them.

So, let us know. Thanks

Mal

 

[richardlnsw]

Welcome aboard mate. I must admit I don't know much about the new E Locker, but they would have to have a good idea of their competion. So, I'm guessing they would be brety good also. From what I gather, they're a Magneticly opperated, activated Elctricaly & I'ld love to hear what you think of them & learn more about them.

So, let us know. Thanks

Mal

Hey mate, have been reading all the info. and i am loving it although getting a bit lost at times( not real good with mechanics), so it is great to listen to people that know what they are talking about and have had experience with different types. It's nice to talk to people that are not trying to sell!!! I have an '05 prado and at this stage i am thinking of rear lock. only, would the Detroit suit my rig do you know? I am going to keep gathering info before i decide although by the sounds of it no matter what i get it will be heaps better than it is now!!!!
Thanks.

 

[Mongrel Lux]

Hey mate, have been reading all the info. and i am loving it although getting a bit lost at times( not real good with mechanics), so it is great to listen to people that know what they are talking about and have had experience with different types. It's nice to talk to people that are not trying to sell!!! I have an '05 prado and at this stage i am thinking of rear lock. only, would the Detroit suit my rig do you know? I am going to keep gathering info before i decide although by the sounds of it no matter what i get it will be heaps better than it is now!!!!
Thanks.

No worries mate, any time that's what we're here for to help each other. & No, I'm not trying to sell you a brand.

As to your '05 Prado, a Detroit ( or any other brand of lock ) would be perfect. It maybe more a matter of what is availible for your rig. If you can get a Detroit for your Prado ( & you probably can since it's 5 yrs old ) you'll love it. If not, an air locker & yes, any Diff Lock is will dubble your off road capability provided a brand makes one for your rig.

Hope this helps


Mal