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Why would anyone want to fit an ARB air locker?

Discussion in 'Differentials' started by mattyboii, Jul 6, 2012.

  1. old_aussie

    old_aussie Banned

    I rang Garrett about my turbo that was there first reponce needs de-sooting , woo back mine is 28 years old I just want to know if there are parts available , leaks on the waste gate shaft from wear .
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2013
  2. old_aussie

    old_aussie Banned

    My sisters husband fitted arb air lockers to his HJ60 land cruiser more than 25 years ago , one was second hand from an HJ45 ute , it was sold in the last few years that bloke drove it around Australia and those lockers have never been rebuilt while he owned that cruiser something has to be wrong ;)
     
  3. ARB4x4

    ARB4x4 New Member

    Hi QueenslandChris,

    You are correct that this level of oil leaking out of your Air Locker is not normal. After checking with the Product Manager, there are a few variables that make it tricky to determine the cause for the leak without seeing it.

    I gave Burleigh Heads a quick call and it seems like you have already arranged a time for them to look over your Air Locker, which is our best advice. I also confirmed all of what they have told you with the Product Manager and it sounds like they have you on the right track.

    If you have any challenges feel free to let me know.

    Cheers,
    Cass
     
  4. Thanks Cass from ARB

    Yes after writing my post I did some more research and decided to go into the ARB Burleigh Heads store as I have a policy of not forming an opinion of anyone/anything without first getting personal experience myself. The thing that impressed me was the first guy who I talked to said "look I dont know that much about the internal workings of these, but I will get the service manager to have a chat to you" that impressed me no end as it is usually impossible to find someone who will admit to not knowing. Then the service manager came out and listened to what I was saying, went and got all the parts I would need and then I asked that if I took the diff head off and bought it in could they repar it and how much approx? Was told approx $200 if its only the seals, through diff fittings and internal cage thing that does break sometimes, and they could test it on the bench. Much cheaper than even replacing the diff even with a second hand original type. We booked it in and I will take it in next week. I am very impressed with all this, so thank you ARB for the service I have had...will let you know how it all goes.
     
  5. Thanks Old-Aussie...

    I will ring Garrett Turbos and see what I have to do to get it sorted...Never heard of de-coked but they are the experts.

    I found the diff had LSD oil in it which apparently shouldn't as the LSD has been removed when the difflockers we installed. I have replaced all the driveline oils with Gulf Western 85-140 and still have the oil coming back through the air locker blue line. Also noticed with the new oil that changing gears is a bit sticky so hoping that will correct itself after a short drive. Feels a lot quieter for the 2km's drive around the block I did to check for leaks.

    The other issue I have is that the gearbox jumps out of 5th and 4th gear when decelerating on a downhill slope. I took it into Currumbin Transmissions and they said that the only way that could happen if if someone has done a lot of towing in 5th gear or maybe the selector gate has somehow warn, but also said that these boxes are bullet-proof and were very surprised at it doing that. Asking a few other people have found out it may do this for the next 500,000km's so if you can put up with it leave it as it is...hopefully that is correct.

    Regards Chris
     
  6. old_aussie

    old_aussie Banned

    Just as a matter of interest Chris my sisters husband is a mechanic of 30+ years he was the one who set my hilux up in 1984 & his advise was never use 140 grade oil in you diffs , when I installed my locker I dumped the 140 grade for 80/90 , my sons hilux the same soon as it got home 80/90 , 20k later changed 80/90 there is no oil leaks on those trucks but that is just my experience , that HJ60 only used 80/90 , hope it goes well for you anyhow , CIAO
     
  7. xjdavid1

    xjdavid1 New Member

    Well I haven't read all 11 pages but a couple of things stood out. The true trac can break axils if you charge at things as they can suddenly lock and put a lot of strain on things. As for the diff pressurising , if the breather hoses are run into the engine bay there are not going to block up. As for the seals wearing out, I suspect that a lot of seals are misdiagnosed as being worn when it is a bearing preload problem. Nobody in the industry uses a spreader to install the Dana style diffs and there lyes the problem. I had mine installed by a workshop and the diffs were blowing oil out the blue line. I had the lockers reinstalled by another workshop and same problem. I now install my own lockers with the use of a spreader and no more problems. As the bearings wear I have had to add more preload twice in 8 years, not a problem as I do it myself now.

    TJM don't make lockers for Dana diffs the last time I looked.

    While I haven't seen a broken elocker yet they do unlock and relock as you go from forward to reverse. Some of them only have 2 and not 4 spider gears.

    99% of problems with arb lockers appear to be because they werent installed properely. They're not the easiest thing to install and a lot of mechanics don't get to install that many. I've had mine for 8 years and I haven't had to touch the rear one. I will admit that I have a full redundant compressor and solenoids as a backup. The pressure switch failed once and the tank blow off.

    Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Tapatalk 2
     
  8. old_aussie

    old_aussie Banned

    The other issue I have is that the gearbox jumps out of 5th and 4th gear when decelerating on a downhill slope. I took it into Currumbin Transmissions and they said that the only way that could happen if if someone has done a lot of towing in 5th gear or maybe the selector gate has somehow warn, but also said that these boxes are bullet-proof and were very surprised at it doing that. Asking a few other people have found out it may do this for the next 500,000km's so if you can put up with it leave it as it is...hopefully that is correct.

    The early land cruisers & hiluxes have a nylon seat under the gear sticks transfer as well it wears away , the stick drops to far into the selector & jumps out of gear simple to replace , I don't know if the newer ones have a seat but if that's the issue it's a cheap fix .
     
  9. Thanks old-aussie....its a 93 so that makes it 20years old...I'm going to pull all the carpet out and installing new underfelt and the boot for the hi-lo selector is u/s so will take it off and while at it have a look at the selector guide you mentioned...I also suspected that may be the problem as it only happens when going down a slope while decelerating which I can see moves the gear stick forward. Also 4th and 5th gear are on different shafts (so i'm told) so wouldn't think it something internal...Thank you for your advice on diff/gearbox oil, maybe I got bad advice, does anyone else have info on this?? Cheers and thanks again..
     
  10. ARB4x4

    ARB4x4 New Member

  11. old_aussie

    old_aussie Banned

    :D I read your book that came with my locker it recomends 90 grade oil for on road & average offroad use , 140 for extreme offroad in high temperature environments ;)
    It's all good folks will make there own choices :cool:
     
  12. old_aussie

    old_aussie Banned

    Our warranties are covered not that it would be an issue anyhow :D
     
  13. hulsty

    hulsty Member

    Sounds like the OP enjoys a good rant about nothing. The O rings are available at just about any ebaring shop, maybe overnight order if they arent in stock. I have front and rear the old stlye RD33 lockers with bolt on seal housings, as per other posts, 99% of the problems are installer related. Mine have been in various vehicles for a long long time, built by someone who knows what they are doing and had no seal related issues.

    Both my diffs have blown up though, one ate a pinion (not the lockers fault) and heavily gouged the locker case. Replaced the gears and smoothed the housing, not a problem since. The second though was a little more disappointing, broke a rear axle and shattered the locker internals. Was especially disappointing since ARB advertising videos show them brake axles in their test jigs and proudly showing off an undamaged locker afterwards, the test clearly does not represent real world conditions. Most parts though were available for repair, needed new cross shafts, side gears, pinion gears, clutch gear, piston and spider block, put new seals on aswell since it was all apart. Was happy to get the parts for something which had been out of production for some time.

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  14. old_aussie

    old_aussie Banned

    Yeah man I reckon there awsome ARB lockers if mine packed it in just buy another , near got bogged today flicked the switch an off ya go , doubt it would bugger up though !
     
  15. old_aussie

    old_aussie Banned

    While we're at it can anyone recommend, (by personal experience) someone who can point me in the right direction for someone who knows about turbos up here on the Gold Coast. Works amazingly till 3000 revs then seams to stop accelerating and puff smoke out the exhaust...hasn't used any oil in 8000kn's so far...Car has only 175,000 original km's. Cheers

    I was at the Toyota dealers they sell a product to clean the soot & gum from turbo's and injectors , only need to use it every 40,000 km's : Genuine Part : ;)
     
  16. Thanks Old-Aussie,

    Do you remember the name of the stuff you mentioned...

    But I'll ring Toyota anyway.....

    Cheers
     
  17. Ok here's the follow up and hopefully ARB will be reading this...I'm not going to rave-n-rant, just tell it like it happened and you can let me know your thoughts.

    Ok so I went into ARB in Burleigh and spoke to the service manager Glen (I hope thats right), who was really helpful. After explaining what was happening he got all the parts out to show me and said that if I bought the diff head in they would fit the parts and test it on the bench so it would all work as it was meant to. And it would cost about $200. Great.

    So off came the diff head and in it went..Next day I get a call and was told that they don't make the parts for this model any more and they would have to change the head unit and some other parts and it would cost approx $460 but it would be as a brand new unit...

    I said ok do it as the diff was out and it needs to be fixed....

    The next day I get a call saying that there is a problem as the new parts bolt holes don't line up with the old bolt holes and the only way to fix it would be to install a whole new unit at approx $1350. It was at this point I said F*ck that, just block the air line hole up and I wont have one...

    I then received a voice message saying my diffs all ready to go and its just labor which is $250, now at this point I was pissed...

    But by the time I arrived in there I had calmed down and after being shown the problem with the new parts Glen only charged me $100.

    So now my leak in the air line is fixed...but I now have no diff lockers....

    While Glen (siht I hope I have his name right) was very helpful and professional the rest was not a good experience...

    Your thoughts???

    Chris
     
  18. bally

    bally Banned

    what was your problem to start with, if it was leaking airline change the airline and fittings for new items. if it was the manifold with the copper line change the seals and re-braze the copper line in place..... there isnt much else that stops them operating......
     
  19. hulsty

    hulsty Member

    So what was the actual problem? If you take it to the right place it can probably be easily fixed. ARB are not in the business of repairs.......

    It took a little bit of work, but I got all the parts required to fix mine no worries.
     
  20. There was a few problems, first who ever installed the lockers in the first place snapped off the through diff fitting so the airline attachment fitting was cross fitted and glued into place. Then there was the seals which were u/s. Because we would loose 300ml of oil every 200km it wasn't just the seals but also the pressure head was u/s as well as an internal cage thingie.

    The new pressure head (I think thats what it's called) bolt holes didn't align up with the existing housing, mine had two bolts very close together in a series around the housing where as the new one had evenly spaced. I did think when I was being shown "why not just drill and tap new holed as half the holes do align up. I thought that would be easy.

    The main problem was that I had to have the diff back in by end of the weekend as my parents in laws were arriving to take it away for their trip ans by the time they finally worked out that they couldn't do it was Thursday late afternoon with Friday being a public holiday on the Gold Coast.

    The strange thing was all the other parts fitted besides the pressure head. But I didn't have the setup or experience to do the assembly of the diff internal parts. The drilling and tapping would have been easy but.

    If it was my car I would have thrown the ARB system out and installed electric lockers. Easier, more reliable and less to go wrong.

    Wonder if I will hear anything back from ARB on this blog.

    Cheers.
     

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