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What are you getting with a bull bar?

Discussion in 'General 4x4 Discussion' started by Ziggy, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. Outrage

    Outrage 4x4 Earth Contributer

    Good example at the end of this report.
    http://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?threads/vhc-deddick-trail-report.43138/

    Guess it's one of those things that is easy to say but putting into practice can be a different story. (Skippy lives though hehe)
     
    Spooner likes this.
  2. Tink

    Tink Well-Known Member

    Yep, lost a mate who swerved to avoid a cow at night. Went down an embankment. Investigator reckoned he would have lived if he had hit it, crumple zones and airbags and all.
    Tink
     
    Spooner likes this.
  3. Cyberess

    Cyberess Active Member

    The question here is what am I getting from my bullbar --
    • Recovery points -- My TJM bullbar has "rated" recovery points built in and yes they have been used.
    • Winch cradle to mount my winch
    • Protection from the scrub, you will notice that I have scrub bars as well, it's because I often drive tracks that have not been driven at times up to 3 years or even longer, and I live up in the tropics and the tracks can get rather over grown, and about every 2 years my bullbar has to come off and get resprayed, and it's the same reason that I don't have driving lights as they would just get smashed.
    • Animal protection - I do a lot of long distance travel.
    Yes it's a simple list of what my bullbar does for my vehicle and what I use my vehicle for ;)
    I do lead 4wd trips, and at times vehicles do come on our trips that don't have bullbars and that's O.K. I will just have those vehicle go near the back of group so that all the plastic pieces don't get smashed off them.
    What I will say here please don't make it compulsory that I am not allowed to have a bullbar.
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    A bull bar is like private health insurance.
    You pay through the nose, don't know how much coverage you'll get and when you call on it you get bill shock.

    I clipped a sand bank last year. Didn't even know it at the time.
    It pushed the bull bar back into the bumper.
    Repair bill: $4900.
    I'm not replacing it.
    Gone for a high nudge bar instead to take the light bar, antenna and sand flag.
     
  5. jacnden

    jacnden Well-Known Member

    here is an interesting option for your bbar
    __691.jpg
     
    abw likes this.
  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Neat. Come in handy on a cold night too.
     
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  7. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    So you say you get animal protection from it: what weight of beast can you hit without the bar being bent back into your wagon?
     
  8. TYNO87

    TYNO87 Member

    I’ve shot plenty of roos that dressed the around 45-50kg mark,I’m not sure what they’d have gone live weight but I’d estimate 60-70kg easy. I’ve hit them that big doing 80km plus and the bar on my old cruiser never flinched. Haven’t hit one that big in the triton yet but I bowled one over the night I fitted my light bar that was probably 30-40kg live and it didn’t leave a mark. It wouldn’t have written the vehicle off without a bar but it would have easily damaged plastic/ lights/ intercooler and possibly radiator.

    I know exactly what I’m getting from all my Insurance’s. It’s written down the bottom in the fine print.
    Sounds like you need to slow down a bit on the beaches if you do that much damage from clipping a sandbank mate. People driving too fast is one of the reasons we’re getting locked out of places.
     
  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah. What does yours pay for a root canal filling? Or the anaesthetist in a knee replacement?
    What speed do you think I was doing? Why do you think it was reckless?
     
  10. TYNO87

    TYNO87 Member

    I’ll look it up for you and let you know Ziggy.
    Yours obviously doesn’t cover optometry if you didn’t see the bull bar move and can’t read product disclosure statements.
    Don’t know how fast you were going mate and didn’t say it was reckless but if you were driving in a manner that didn’t let you see something capable of doing that much damage and going fast enough to do said damage there’s a fair chance you were being a bit reckless.
     
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    There's no need to be offensive.
    Play the ball not the man. If you can't make the point otherwise then you don't have a case.
    You don't have to go fast to bend a bar back and damage your vehicle. Sand doesn't absorb much energy so that work is done by the vehicle.
    This instance involved a roadside mound, under 60 kmh. If you're concerned about bad rep, there's several million hectares in central Australia they'd have to exclude.
     
  12. nananut

    nananut Well-Known Member

    Avoid driving at night??? Hard to go to Perth from Kalgoorlie (600km trip one way) after work when I have an appointment at 8 or 9am the next day. This is the reality for most people living in the regional centres. Plane tickets are at least $500 return. Getting time off work for travel? Not happening. Boss won't allow it. Travelling at 70km/hr during the night? Yeah right. It's gonna take a 6.5hr drive and extend it to 7.5/8hr drive. Not happening. Fatigue is worse.

    I love night time driving and I've only ever hit a roo once at 70km/hr but it survived as it only clipped the side of the bullbar. Prefer that than day time driving. I have driven on country roads from 10 years of living in regional towns with various vehicles. You also learn a thing or 2 about animal behaviour (different at night compared to day) and driving in the middle of the road amongst other things. I had more issues with roos jumping in front of the car during the day time than night time. I still have halogen spotties which aren't as blinding as the LED or HID. My eyes can't stand LED or HID lights. No doubt the animals will have troubles as well. No plans to upgrade the halogens lights anytime soon. There was an article about this years ago. Don't remember where I read it.

    I just did a 7800km drive in 3 weeks including a night time drive from Kal to Caiguna at 110km/hr. Plenty of animals around but didn't hit one. Not even close. I've done 100000km in 3 years and another 85000km 3 years previously. I can easily say over 50% of those ks is night time driving because of the Perth trips.

    My TJM Bullbar has my winch, spotties, UHF aerial, a place for the sand flag if need be and recovery points. I do travel to remote locations quite regularly. When I weighed the front end before my Pilbara trip in July, it weighed around 1200kg. Don't remember the exact figure. If you want to know how much a bullbar weighs, just check the box it came in. The box would have the weight on it for transport reasons.

    Hit something? The most logical thing to do is check for damage. Check the brackets, check behind the bullbar, check, check, check immediately after you hit something.

    If you don't want a bullbar, it's your choice but for most of us, it's our choice to have a bar for various reasons. This debate came up years ago when the government wanted to ban them. As long as the bullbar adheres to the ADR, I don't see a problem. Nothing is fail safe. That's the reality.

    BTW sand does absorb energy. It depends on how hard or soft the sand is. Some road medians have soft sand. My PE students have done coefficient of restitution experiments using different balls on hard and soft surfaces. May not be a 3T vehicle but the principle is still the same.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 9:07 AM
    Blue_haired_man likes this.
  13. TYNO87

    TYNO87 Member

    I’ve already made my case. You just can’t accept that some people’s views are different to your own. You’ve got your opinion on bull bars and that’s fine. I actually agree with you, not everyone needs a bull bar. I’ve already acknowledged how much nicer cars drive etc with out them. But the point remains, a large amount of the people who own 4wds do have a legitimate reason to have a bull bar.
    I didn’t read anything I’ve said, I learned it the old fashioned way. I’ve driven all over the country in 4wds both for pleasure and work and have seen first hand the damage animal strikes etc can have on vehicles as well as the damage a bull bar can inflict on other vehicles and people. I’ve also hit countless animals, small trees (deliberately), etc and never encountered or heard of anyone encountering any of the damage you’ve mentioned.
    Sorry for the offence Ziggy, it’s not intended to be mean, just banter.
    Would the mound you hit have done $4900 worth of damage if you didn’t have a bull bar?
    If you hit it hard enough to move the bull bar I tend to think it would have pushed the radiator etc in a fair way?
    Who installed the bull bar?
     
  14. Blue_haired_man

    Blue_haired_man Well-Known Member

    I don’t know where you got personal, but I personally don’t understand the scenario of hitting something then blaming the bullbar for the damage either or how a nudge bar would have prevented this?
    I’ve got a ding on the back door of my cruiser from sliding back into a tree and pushing the spare wheel carrier into it while winching a neighbour back onto a track, my fault entirely and not the rear bar, but that’s me.
     
  15. Poppa

    Poppa Member

    You might have seen this on the Fyrlyt website - a short video provides a very good explanation on the why's and what ifs etc on the halogen/HID/LED debate - many may say there is no debate - halogen are dead - but then again there are many in the silent majority (or is that the silent minority) who will remain with halogen.
    Whatever - it is an interesting clip though and provides all of us with food for thought.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017 at 7:25 PM
    komaterpillar likes this.
  16. Tink

    Tink Well-Known Member

    You did more than clip that sand bank for a $4900 repair bill :rolleyes:
    How did you not even notice it?
    Also how did you push the bullbar back into the bumper? What make of bullbar? The OEM bumper is normally removed totally or 90% of it is removed to fit a bullbar.
    And what damage did you suffer? What parts were replaced? For a clip you didn’t notice :rolleyes:
    Tink
     
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  17. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    My point is simple.
    An opinion isn't data.
    You may think you're getting protection with a bar but you don't know. You certainly can't assume it's going to let you drive off after an impact.
    The only data we have that compares apples with apples shows the bar created more damage than not having a bar.

    With health insurance you pay your premiums but when you come to claim the rebate isn't what you expected and it's difficult to actually find out what it will be in any given case. That's a pretty good analogy in my book. It's based on assumptions and hope. It may have been OK in one case but that is no guarantee of the next.
     
  18. Blue_haired_man

    Blue_haired_man Well-Known Member

    There’s actually plenty of experiences in this thread of people hitting, not clipping, animals and not suffering any damage. Comparing bullbars with health insurance is the biggest instance on comparing apples and oranges. Just saying.
     
    komaterpillar likes this.
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Try this for a checklist of the kind of standard consumer information needed to make an informed choice:
    I know the weight, so can assess whether I've exceeded the front axle load rating.
    I know what impact it'll sustain without connecting with the body or immobilising the vehicle.
    I know whether the car manufacturer has shared the airbag deployment specs with the bar maker, to be sure that the air bags will work as intended.
    I know whether high speed testing was done before the bar was released to the public.
    I know whether the bar and vehicle have been ANCAP tested and what the rating was.
     
  20. Blue_haired_man

    Blue_haired_man Well-Known Member

    Weight is provided on the packaging.
    Impact resistance? How long is a piece of string? Too many variables, point/points/area of impact, what was hit, speed, orientation of vehicle.
    Ancap rating? Bullbars are expensive enough already and are required to comply with ADR for vehicles manufactured after a certain date.
    Or we could all just buy a Prius stick to main roads and car parks.
     
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